TRANSCRIPT continued: [Putin at] Meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club (partial transcript continued)

File Photo of Vladimir Putin at Valdai Club 2013 Meeting, Adapted from Screenshot of Valdai Club Video at youtube.com

(Kremlin.ru – Novgorod Region, September 19, 2013)

TELEVISION PRESENTER KSENIYA SOBCHAK: Mr President, the first post-Soviet generation grew up during your time in power. This generation has shown that it is prepared to invest time in politics. We see that these people ­ largely urban university graduates, middle or high income ­ are willing to work as volunteers and election observers, and participate in rallies.

What do you think this generation’s moral and political demands are? Do you see any of these thirty-somethings as your political opponents? And how do you think this generation will remember you and, likewise, how will you remember it?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: You know, at the beginning of the 1990s and in the early 2000s, a vast number of Russians went through an extremely trying period due to the collapse of a great power, the collapse of standards and moral principles on which Soviet society had been based. All this was followed by the collapse of our economy, social sphere and security, and what was virtually a civil war in the Caucasus. People were clearly frightened.

Naturally all these people wanted to quickly pass through this difficult stage in the country’s development, to stabilise it, and start a positive and progressive stage. In general, these objectives have been achieved. In general. Of course, not everything has been achieved, but fundamental things have. Now there’s an opportunity to look at everything closely, to analyse what was done well and what was done badly, and to glance into the future, and we can do it calmly, without the pressure of the severe problems of the 1990s and early 2000s. I am very pleased that young people are engaged in this.

As in any country young people have big demands and little experience. Who were the Red Guards in China? They were young people [groups of students formed into paramilitary units during the Cultural Revolution (1966­76)]. We’re not going to follow their example. We still need to focus on modern people who understand the country in which they live, and have a clear idea about its potential development paths. That is very important, extremely important. In part I already tried to answer Vladimir Ryzhkov’s question to this effect: we need [to enlist] the thinking part of the population, not just the destroyers.

We have already had a lot of destroyers. One war after another, one revolution after another. We need creators. I would really like to see more and more creators among those people who are actively involved in politics, more and more professionals. And [when this happens it] is a very good process, a very good sign, a sign of at least relative well-being. I am sure that in general this will come to pass.

Our German colleague talked about how, unfortunately, in Germany young people are not very interested in politics. Nevertheless I do not entirely agree with you, because in its time the Green Party was set up mainly by young people, then just very recently there was another party that was established…

VOLKER RÜHE: The friends of the Green Party.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I support environmental movements, and I think it is a very important aspect of our work.

Then the Pirate Party appeared. Now it’s not quite as successful in the electoral sense, but it’s still there and it’s also composed of young people. In principle, young people are active everywhere. I would very much like for this activity to take on a positive character. Of course, there must also be political struggle and competition. And I very much hope that this will happen, that outstanding leaders will emerge; the country needs them.

Please go ahead.

QUESTION: Mr President, first of all thank you very much for your rich and varied presentation.

Returning to the topic of integration, Charles Grant asked for comments about other EU members’ thoughts and opinions about signing an association agreement with Ukraine. Valdai participants are well aware that, to varying degrees, the EU has become more sceptical about signing such an agreement in the past two years. But it is noteworthy that this scepticism has significantly abated in response to Russia’s policy, and not only with respect to Ukraine, but also Moldova, and especially Armenia.

My question is: does this surprise you? And if such an agreement [with Ukraine] is signed in November, what will Russia’s response be?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I think I have already answered this question. Russia’s response will primarily involve steps in the economic sphere. We have no desire or aspiration to revive the Soviet empire with respect to politics or [infringements of] sovereignty. This is obvious, do you understand? It’s not advantageous for us, and it is also both impossible and unnecessary. But when we talk about pragmatic things we must not forget, as I already said, that this affects not only Ukraine, but also Moldova, which you have also mentioned.

Where will Moldova sell its wine? In France? I’m sure the French will not let them sell a single bottle of Moldovan wine in their country. It’s just as impossible in Italy. That is a fact; there is absolutely no doubt about it. Let’s see what will happen if they try. Wine producers will dump out all the crates, destroy everything, and pour it all into ditches. It will be impossible for small states to sell any of their priority exports on the European market. Everything will be sold on our market, nearly 100% of their exports. If we take, for example, Moldova’s exports and ask where they are going? The answer is: to Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan.

If Moldovan leaders sign this document ­ and good luck to them ­ good quality cheap Italian and French wine will enter the Moldovan market. Where will Moldovan wine go? Besides, there are certain technical regulations that are inconsistent with ours. Rules are different. There are some economic parameters that are automatically applied by the EU and European Commission, but not by Moldova itself. And they will be automatically extended to Moldova. All these goods will rush to us, this is the first thing.

Secondly, we suspect that we’ll receive products from third countries disguised as Moldovan or Ukrainian goods. That’s what worries us. This has nothing to do with trying to put pressure on a sovereign right to make decisions. We just ask you to look at everything and make your calculations. If our colleagues deem our arguments invalid, do not be offended if we are forced to defend our interests, or to introduce certain restrictions. There is nothing unusual or selfish here. We have to think about our own national economic interests.

I would like to give the floor to a representative of our Muslim community.

QUESTION: Mr President,

Let me thank you for this excellent platform that has given us a chance to spend three or four days working as a small multi-faith team discussing various issues.

First of all, we thank you for your policy that reaffirms humanity’s moral values. This is very important today. You and the supporters of your initiative have proposed a plan for resolving the conflict in Syria. The situation there is very serious indeed, and if you permit, I would like to remind the audience that Syria’s capital is not an ordinary city, but in the belief of a billion Muslims, and perhaps Christians too, it is the city where Jesus Christ will appear.

We believe in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and it is said that it is in Damascus that he will appear. Even the late Pope John Paul II, when he came to Damascus, he visited the white minaret, where many say that Christ will appear. This is an amazing thing. This explains why the heads of many religions have given your initiative their backing, because it is so important to preserve peace in this land.

I would also like to thank you for the support that our country’s traditional faiths receive. At the Iversky Monastery, Metropolitan Hilarion spoke about how over recent years, sadly, we have lost more than 50 imams and muftis, who were killed for their convictions, killed because they stood guard over Russia’s stability, calm and peace. Not only Muslims have been killed. An attempt was made on the life of a rabbi in Dagestan, and our Orthodox brothers have been targets too. I hope very much that relations between the authorities and the country’s religions will develop in the right direction in the future.

Thank you very much.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: This was more of a short speech than a question, I think.

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: If you permit, I will call for the last two questions now. There are still of lot of questions, and a lot of familiar faces. I can see Alexei Kudrin hiding away in the back rows.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Alexei, where are you hiding? Do you have any questions?

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: I meant that there are plenty of people you know well here. It simply won’t be possible to answer all the questions. Let’s have two more questions. You can choose.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I’ve got questions I want to ask him [Kudrin]. What questions does he have for me? (Laughter)

Please, go ahead.

QUESTION: Mr President,

We all have our various political differences, but we all have one thing in common: we all want a great Russia. Russia can be great only when it is united. I mean ‘united’ in the broad sense of the term and am not referring to the [United Russia] political party’s name. When Vladimir [Ryzhkov] spoke earlier about the Bolotnaya Square case, he spoke precisely about this issue of disunity. I think you have definitely secured yourself a place in history. Future generations will give their assessment of all that you have done.

But the discussion now is about this minority, just a small minority, yes, but one that came knocking at the Kremlin gates many times, only it seems to them that no one is listening. So they came knocking one time and ended up in a scuffle with the guards. Is there a crime in this or not? You won the presidential election and you have the power to pardon them. A draft law to amnesty these people has already been submitted to the State Duma. This action will receive the response it deserves.

There are many other dividing lines too. You spoke about a very important issue in your speech, about regional divisions, for example, the problem of separatism, and you mentioned Siberian separatism. I represent Siberia in the State Duma…

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Which part of Siberia?

QUESTION: Novosibirsk. I represent Novosibirsk and plan next year to run for Mayor of Novosibirsk. In other words, I want to enter that same Kremlin gate and show that the opposition is not just about talking, but also about actually doing something. This is what I wanted to ask you about.

In your election campaign promises and subsequent executive orders, you decided to raise teachers’ wages. The actual results of this promise give a vivid illustration of the state of the country’s system of government today. Our region carried out your executive order and raised teachers’ wages. A teacher in our region now earns 22,000 roubles. That seems surely a good thing. But what situation do we end up with? We now have half the regional budget being spent on education. That’s great, I’m left-wing and this is just what I always wanted.

But in the villages you now have teachers earning 22,000 rubles while the people working on the farms are getting only 6,000 rubles. That makes the teachers ‘oligarchs’ there, and the locals are already taking up arms against them. In Novosibirsk itself on the other hand, 22,000 rubles is nothing. Every time I meet with voters they always ask me when we are finally going to raise wages. I say that we’ve only just raised them. This is just to show that it is very difficult to run the regions from Moscow. You need to delegate powers to the regions themselves.

One of the last promises in the annual presidential address made by your predecessor, Mr Medvedev, was the promise to redistribute budget revenues so as to transfer 1 trillion to the municipal level. Mr President, what is your view on this promise? As a future mayor, I can tell you that if we do get this money, you will see what our great Russia could look like.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: On the subject of education and teachers’ pay, what I said was that teachers should be paid at least the equivalent of the region’s average wage, the average for that particular region. If the average wage in the region you represent is 22,000, than teachers, no matter where they live, including in rural areas, should be paid 22,000. This does not make them oligarchs. Imagine calling teachers oligarchs when they are really just people living modest lives.

But they maybe should indeed be earning more than some of the other groups you mentioned. Why, for whose sake? It’s precisely for the sake of these very people who do not earn much money, so that their children will have the same opportunities as children from better off families to get a good education and open the doors to their future lives.

Our country’s future depends on the quality of education. I am sure that you would fully agree with me on this. But if we do not pay our teachers a decent wage we will not achieve this goal.

As for the fact that a big part of the region’s budget is being spent on social sector needs, of course it would be good to have more money in the regional budgets for investment projects too. You are right here, of course. But all of these investment projects also involve a large share of, shall we say, inefficient spending in all sorts of subcontracted work ­ let’s just call it inefficient since I don’t want to accuse anyone of corruption. There are often big doubts about the efficiency of it all. But when we get the money directly to the people, and all the more so when it is groups such as teachers, I can assure you that these are the most effective investments in our country’s future.

As for the trillion roubles, I would like to give a trillion or two to the regions, and we are in fact discussing very actively the reform of financial relations with the regional and local authorities. We need to balance the share of powers and responsibilities and make sure they have their own financing sources.

Whether it’s a trillion, half a trillion, or 1.5 trillion ­ this would need to be based on the federal budget’s real possibilities, which are limited at the moment by the problems in the global and the Russian economies.

Of course, the goal we are working towards is for the local authorities, especially in big cities of a million people or more like Novosibirsk, to have sufficient funds of their own for carrying out the tasks before them.

The election time will come and you can show us your best qualities. I hope the election will be open, honest, and competitive.

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: Mr President, the last question. Please choose.

REPLY: The wrestlers want to speak.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: What are you wrestling with?

QUESTION: I’m sorry for holding up my hand for so long, but I just couldn’t give up because I have been asked to speak for wrestlers from around the world. The Wrestling World Championships are currently underway in Budapest, as you know. I want to express our gratitude to you on behalf of the International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles and the Russian Wrestling Federation: thank you very much for the contribution you made to ensuring that our sport, Greco-Roman wrestling and Freestyle Wrestling remain in the Olympic programme and in the Olympic family.

All of us realise that this is thanks to your efforts. The children who started training again have a light in their eyes. This is a big achievement and a great policy, and it was completely down to you. Throughout the world, our wrestlers, Olympic champions and even children, entered their training studios today in a better mood, with a new determination to fight for Olympic medals.

Thank you very much.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you.

But that decision was made by the IOC; it was measured and balanced. It is true that we have a lot of friends there. We try to work closely with IOC members. Indeed, we welcome this decision. It would be hard to imagine the Olympic programme without the sports that were at the heart of the ancient Olympic games ­ track and field, running and wrestling.

You know, I want us to finish on a positive note today, so I have a suggestion: why don’t I ask the audience that instead of addressing your questions me, you address them to each of my colleagues on the stage, or as they say, on the panel. You can ask each of my colleagues a question, and then I will answer one last question.

Right now, Germany is going through a very important period: the elections. Perhaps someone has a question regarding this issue, about how the government will be formed and who will be in the coalition? How the future Germany will build its relations with Russia? It is our largest trade and economic partner after China. Unfortunately, Germany is now second to China in trade volume. Perhaps these questions…

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: A question for Mr Rühe?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Yes.

VOLKER RÜHE: I’ll take your questions.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I don’t doubt it.

VOLKER RÜHE: I think you’ll see the same Chancellor as a partner in the future. Russian-speaking Angela Merkel, with about 40%.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: For the third time, now.

VOLKER RÜHE: I think she will not change. She will always be afraid of dogs. But she’ll get 40% and more.

But the question is: which coalition partner? It’s an open question if the liberals with the foreign minister, whom you know, will get into Parliament. So this is why Mr Genscher, I think, who was originally supposed to be here, didn’t come. Because it’s really about the existential situation of the FDP, the liberal party in Germany. If they get a little more than 5%, there’s a chance for a coalition, like now, but I think more likely now will be a grand coalition led by Angela Merkel and the Social Democrats.

But the Social Democrats last time had 23%, and it’s not easy for them to be a junior partner again, because they are 150 years old, a very prominent German Party. And so, I think they have to gain votes. If they go up on Sunday to 27-28%, they have enough confidence probably to win the party over, to be a junior partner.

But I think as regards Russia, there’s a big consensus in Germany that we want to work closer, ever closer. I saw you were fascinated by the Greens and the Pirates. I’m afraid the Greens are in a crisis and the Pirates will have about 2%.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Why?

VOLKER RÜHE: Because they have no programme. I mean, your opposition is very concrete compared with the Pirates in Germany.

So I think you see a lot of continuity in German politics, but as I hope, for instance, that Mr Steinmeier will be Foreign Minister again. I think he is very much engaged in the German-Russian relations. And I am also feeling that we should start a new impetus. And I’m very much encouraged by how you’ve treated the opposition and what you’ve told them here.

So I go home very optimistic. I will cast my vote next Sunday. And I think you will see a stable Germany on Monday ­ also a Germany, as I’ve said earlier this week ­ which needs the European Union more than any other state. Just because it is so big, we can look after our national interests best in this European context. And when there were problems coming up, in the future, there will still be problems. I see a Germany that doesn’t try to Germanise Europe, which is a difficult thing. It would make Europe also a very boring place, if everybody were like us, it would not be so interesting. We like the differences. We like solidity, but also solidarity. And from my point of view, I think solidarity among north and south in the European Union may play a bigger role after these elections.

That’s my analysis. You can compare next Monday if it’s working.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you.

As for the decline in the popularity of certain parties, including new ones, as a result of lacking a programme, a clear political and competitive programme. This is very important for all nations, including Russia. This is part of the answer to certain questions that I have been asked by the audience.

Let’s ask Mr Fillon if he is going to run in the presidential election. (Laughter.) You can answer briefly, in one word.

FRANCOIS FILLON: I don’t know why I should answer this question. After all, you didn’t answer it when you were asked directly.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I wasn’t asked this question.

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: Yes you were.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Was I? I didn’t hear it.

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: Nikolai Zlobin asked you.

FRANCOIS FILLON: Let me reply one more time. I think my answer was misinterpreted or misheard. I prefer not to answer this question, because you did not answer it when you were asked directly.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: So will you answer if I do?

FRANCOIS FILLON: We’ll see.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I’m not ruling it out.

FRANCOIS FILLON: I’m not ruling it out, either.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Mr Fillon and I worked together when he and I were both prime ministers. I want to express my appreciation for him, in the best sense of that word. He was a very reliable and constructive partner, always positive, professional and calm. And when he said “no”, it never sounded insulting, it was always substantiated. But if he said “yes”, we always carried our agreements to their logical conclusion. So I just want to thank you for our work together. Thank you very much.

SVETLANA MIRONYUK: Mr President, I want to let you know that we [RIA Novosti] release news updates on what you say as President, and today, since you have succeeded as an interviewer, we are releasing the breaking news that Mr Fillon “does not rule it out.”

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Very well.

Romano, will Letta’s Government hold its ground, will everything be all right? We are counting on the stability of the Italian Government.

ROMANO PRODI: Absolutely. If you want to have a boring Europe, you need to impose German values, but if you want to have a fun Europe, you should impose Italian values.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Fun is more appealing, of course.

ROMANO PRODI: We could come to an agreement on this issue.

People are now asking: will Berlusconi remain in Parliament? I think either way, this will not lead to a government crisis. The Government will continue its work, or at least fulfil its previous promises regarding what is best according to political experts. Without a doubt, anyone can face personal problems, and personal decisions can certainly disrupt the situation temporarily. But right now, a split of sorts is underway between Berlusconi and the Government.

The coalition is complicated. It does not resemble the German one, it consists of parties that have common values, but they have their differences as well. Two coalitions that currently form the Italian Government are certainly divided on many issues. But the Prime Minister is working quite efficiently, wisely, and is truly achieving results and movement in the right direction. So even if we cannot promise anything right now concerning long-term prospects, we can promise stability in the short- and medium-term.

I would like to share a brief observation. I’m enjoying our meeting very much. It resembles a circus. We are all like animals, talking here and performing. And we are free animals. Moreover, there are not that many of us. This is exactly the right scale. We can express a large number of viewpoints, and at the same time, we can speak one after another. It’s a good combination. And I want to ask you not to change anything, because if there are many participants, like at other forums, then our ideas and the essence of what is happening can be lost, whereas here we fully understand what is happening. And this is a very useful experience.

And one last remark. We have been discussing the European Union and the world. I want to say that we can act only with the help of the Security Council, but even in that case, it is imperative to understand the consequences. If, for example, we consider the war in Libya, it was started to prevent atrocities and widespread killing. But certainly, we must move in the right direction, and it is imperative to understand which direction is the correct one.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Here in Russia, we also wish Mr Letta’s Government success. I won’t deny that he really surprised me at the G20 summit, when he suddenly announced that Italy cannot support the plans for a strike against Syria. This was unexpected for me. I can honestly say I was surprised by such an open, personal position within the Western community, in spite of NATO’s well-known solidarity.

ROMANO PRODI: He used to be my deputy secretary.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: It’s hard to agree that we are all animals here. But can I just ask you, do you think we are herbivores or predators?

ROMANO PRODI: We are omnivores. (Laughter.) We eat all kinds of food; we have diversity, including in our diet. Otherwise, we would contradict what we are saying.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you.

To be continued.

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