TRANSCRIPT: Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland’s Remarks at Shevchenko University in Kyiv

(US Embassy Ukraine – October 7, 2014)

Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland
Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs
Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv

Thank you Rector Huberski, thank you students. I am so sorry to be late, I am so sorry to keep you waiting. I am so delighted to be here with the future of Ukraine.

You know, every time I come to Kyiv, Ambassador Pyatt makes me see 20 people, 40 people, and all of them are way too old. And this time I said let’s go see the youth of Ukraine. So thank you for waiting. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to see you today.

As those of you who have been to Washington know, in the middle of my hometown there is a statute of the namesake of this university, Shevchenko. And on this 200th Anniversary it’s fitting that we all together recollect one of his great sayings which is imprinted on the bottom of the statute in Washington. It is an inscription to the liberation, freedom and independence of all captive nations. That’s what Shevchenko fought for and you, at this university and across Ukraine, are the successors of his legacy. It’s you who inspire not only your own country, it’s you the students of Ukraine who inspired not only your own country but also the entire world that change is possible, and that if you are willing to stand up for freedom, if you are willing to stand up for democracy, if you’re willing to stand out in the cold as so many of you did just last winter, things can change. And you are the ones who fought for a clean, democratic, free European Ukraine. A Ukraine with dignity. You are the ones who convinced your parents and your grandparents that it was possible. And you are the ones who convinced my country and countries around Europe and around the world to support you. So remember that, no matter how hard it gets, that this started with you and it is you who will carry it forward and it is you who will be its beneficiaries.

And there already has been some success. You’ve had free and fair elections. You have a new president in President Poroshenko who ran on a platform of peace and unity and who has already taken brave and difficult and sometimes unpopular decisions for peace, and Ukraine has benefited. You’ve had the support of Europe, you’ve had the support of the world, you’ve had the support of my country. Ukraine this year has received $290 million in U.S. financial support plus a billion dollar loan guarantee. And now you have what so many of you stood on the Maidan for, you have an association agreement with Europe and a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement. So for that, these are successes of yours. Give yourselves a round of applause.

But I know and we know that Ukraine has paid a high price. And I’m going to guess that in many of your families that price has been felt very personally. Crimea is occupied. The war in the east took more than 3,000 Ukrainian lives and several hundred Russian lives.

Today what Ukraine needs more than anything is peace, is security, is unity, and is a clean and accountable government, and I say to you that just as you started this, the future of this is very much in your hands. Just as you fought for a fresh start, now you have to fight to end it and to end it well. To end it democratically. To end it accountably.

You need to fight now for peace. You need to fight for unity. You need to fight against corruption. You need to fight for that clean, accountable Ukrainian government that you stood in the snow for. You need to fight for a free media. You need to fight for justice and accountability for the victims.

Let’s start with peace. I know that for many Ukrainians the September 5th Minsk Agreement was controversial, as was September 19th. I will tell you that from an American perspective the September 5th Minsk Agreement as written was a very good agreement. The question now is will it be implemented as it was written.

We know that it is not being implemented today. The shooting has not stopped and the shooting must stop. At Donetsk Airport, at Debaltseve, at Shchastya. All foreign forces and foreign equipment must be withdrawn. All the hostages must be returned. Notably, including Nadia Shevchenko.

And today, as much attention must be paid to Point Four of the agreement, that is, the international border and securing it and restoring Ukrainian sovereignty on the international border, as has been paid to securing the line of control and the special status areas. And we are concerned. We are concerned now that that border remains open, supplies and equipment for the separatists continue to be purveyed, and there will not be peace, there will not be economic sovereignty, there will not be political sovereignty, there will not be unity, there will not be safety and security for the Donbas until that border is closed.

So when the Ukrainian government puts forward a concrete plan for securing that border it will have the support of the United States, it will have the support of Europe, it will have the support of the OSCE countries.

And I would venture to guess it will also have the support of the people of the Donbas. How many of you come from the east of Ukraine? Raise your hands. I see at least ten percent of this audience. I would argue today that it is the people of the Donbas who have been victimized the most in this conflict. They are the ones who are trapped in the middle of this violence and living in cities today and towns and villages with no water, no electricity, no future, barely any opportunity to earn a living.

So Donbass too must be a part of Ukraine’s future. And if that border can be secured, if free, fair elections can be held not only on October 26th across Ukraine for the Rada, but also on December 7th out in the Donbas, everybody will benefit.

So we also call on you, even as you work to secure your future here in Kyiv, to reach out to those in the Donbas who are suffering and tell them that you see their future in Ukraine too, and that you want them to come back to a place where they see prosperity, they see a future, they see peace, they see security, as part of a unified Ukraine.

We believe that the east of Ukraine can also be a bridge. It can be an economic bridge and frankly, without it, Ukraine will be stressed economically.

Which brings me to a second challenge, the economy. You all know how much change needs to happen here, how much reform is necessary, how much reconstruction will also be needed in the east. We are committed to being your partners in that, but only you can do the hard work there.

The biggest threat to Ukraine’s economic future, I don’t have to tell this crew but I will, is corruption. Today, corruption is one of the biggest threats to your future, but it’s also one of the reasons that you stood out on the Maidan, was to have a clean and accountable government.

So I say to you as you work for a stronger future for your country, it is in your hands to demand better of your government. So when you go out and vote, when you go on October 26th, and I hope every single person in this room will use their franchise, look for those candidates who are promising to bring you a cleaner, more accountable government. Insist that they open their finances, open their accounts, and demonstrate to you that if they get your vote they will work for the people of this country and not for themselves.

The biggest threat to Ukraine in addition to the search for peace, the search for security, the search for reform, is also internal complacency.

On this trip as on every trip we’ve met with people across the political spectrum, we’ve met with people in the government, we’ve met with people in civil society and everywhere everyone says it is so hard, there are so many problems, we have so many external threats and challenges. Your biggest threat is internal complacency. You made the changes that you’ve seen so far possible. You have to continue to fight to see them delivered. That means you have to fight to have a clean Ukraine, you have to fight to have the future that you deserve.

So I ask each of you. Go out and vote on October 26th. Keep pushing for peace. Keep pushing for unity. Keep pushing for accountability. Keep pushing for checks and balances in your internal system. Keep pushing for a clean, accountable judiciary. Be active in your communities. Work for your country. Be builders, not destroyers. Be budivel’niki, be stroitely of your country. Sorry, my Ukrainian’s not so good. And as you take those steps, the United States will stand with you, our allies in Europe will stand with you. We will support the peace that you are working for with monitors, with technical equipment on the border, and with the moral authority that you stand on the side of right.

We will support your security with a program we have already instituted to train and advise your military and rebuild it after the devastation of the conflict. We will support your commitment to economic reform with technical support, with assistance, with advice including in the energy sphere. And we will continue to support the people to people exchanges that make us strong as nations.

Some of you may well be alumni of one of our strongest people to people programs, the Future Leaders Exchange. Our high school exchange that brings more than 200 Ukrainians to high schools across the United States. Do we have any FLEXers in the room? All right. Look at that. Fantastic.

As you’ve probably heard, the Russian Federation made a decision last week to cancel our 2015-2016 FLEX program in Russia, to deny their own citizens the opportunity to study in the United States. This is something that saddens us because also in Russia the alumni of the FLEX program are one of the greatest bridges between our countries and the greatest speakers of truth of the importance of a strong relationship there. So we hope that we’ll be able to restore our program in Russia in the not too distant future. But, in the meantime, we will have more than 100 extra high school slots for Ukrainians as a result of not being able to work in Russia. So more than 300 Ukrainians will be able to go to U.S. high school next year.

We are committed to helping you and supporting you in your effort to build a clean, democratic European future for your country. We don’t do this because we like you, although we do. We don’t this because we have deep ties of family and culture with millions of Ukrainian-Americans making our own cities strong, although we do, and some of you may have relatives in the United States. We do this because a successful, clean, strong, united, democratic Ukraine is the best antidote to forces of yesterday on this continent, forces of aggression, forces of violence, forces of corruption. Ukraine today, and your success, is the lynchpin to our 20-year dream of a Europe whole, free and at peace. And not only a Europe: you are also a beacon for people around the world who want to live in greater freedom, who want to live in greater security, who want to live with greater dignity.

So you have a very important future ahead of you. Thanks for all you do every day. We are proud to be your partners. Slava Ukraini!

Audience: Thank you very much for coming here and for finding time in your schedule. We all thank you for the opportunity to speak with you, and we all appreciate this. Thank you very much.

My question is: Ukraine now came to the point when all diplomatic methods have been already used in order to find peace on the east of our borders, and we all see that there are no results. Many diplomatic treaties have been violated. Many, the Russian side has violated all of the treaties concerning the aggression on the east. And the question that appears here is what Ukraine on this point should do in order to find peace on the east, and what specific actions should Ukraine government held in order to find peace? Thank you.

A/S Nuland: Thanks for that.

As I said in my brief remarks here, we do believe that the September 5th Minsk Agreement, if it is fully implemented, is the best hope for peace. And Ukraine has already fulfilled a large number of its obligations. You passed the Amnesty Bill, you passed the Special Status Bill for communities in the east to provide decentralized authority there. The government has been working intensively to demarcate the special status internal border. It’s now time to turn attention to the unfinished pieces, which is to enunciate a clear plan for the international border and to then call on Russia and to call on all of us in the international community to help implement that, to restore the border posts, to allow the OSCE to monitor. To allow technical and other human means between the border posts, because unless and until that border gets closed, we’re not going to be able to stop the rearming, et cetera.

But in addition to that, the foreign fighters have to go, the equipment has to go, the hostages have to be released.

We, the U.S. and Europe, have made clear to Russia that if the Minsk Agreement is fully implemented as it was written, that we will begin to remove some of the sanctions that we have on Russia. That’s a powerful incentive. But we’ve also made clear that if this Minsk Agreement is not honored, that there will be further costs.

So we will stand with you as you do that. You as citizens need to insist that Minsk is fully implemented, not just in part, not just those parts that are convenient to some.

Audience: Hello, Mrs. Nuland. My name is Nick. I am from history faculty, the chair of the newest history of Ukraine. I have a couple of questions to you, Mrs. Nuland.

Ukraine feels your support for the USA, but tell us please when Ukraine will get this special status of a major NATO ally? And another question that I had is, have you congratulated our honorable friend Putin with his birthday? Thank you very much.

A/S Nuland: I had missed the fact that it’s President Putin’s birthday. That makes him a Libra. I’ll have to think about what that means strategically and tactically. Obviously we always congratulate everyone on their birthday.

With regard to, I assume you’re referring to Major Non-NATO Ally Status. I think there has been some misunderstanding between the American side and the Ukrainian side on this question. Ukraine already has all of the benefits that you accrue from Major Non-NATO Status and has had them for more than 15 years as a member of NATO’s Partnership for Peace program. You have the opportunity to buy and acquire security and defense articles. You have the opportunity to train with us, to get our military advice, all those kinds of things.

The MNNA program was designed for countries that don’t have the opportunity through Partnership for Peace and through their Euro-Atlantic trajectory to ever have an association with the alliance. So the kinds of countries who have it are countries like Kuwait and Pakistan who have no NATO relationship, no NATO future.

As I said, this is not necessary for Ukraine and it in fact could give a signal that you’re not a Euro-Atlantic country, so it was a miscommunication to ask for it in the first place.

Audience: Mrs. Nuland, welcome to Ukraine. My name is Kristina Duzynska and I am a student of law faculty. I know that in 1982 you were in Odessa in the summer camp, Molodaya Gvardiya.

A/S Nuland: You have very good intelligence information. [Laughter].

Audience: And at present you are continual representative of the USA in NATO. In 2012 I was also in Odessa in the summer camp Molodaya Gvardiya.

A/S Nuland: All right. And you survived. I also survived. [Laughter]. I would say the people were fantastic. The food, not so much.

Audience: What do you think, may I become the representative for Ukraine in the NATO in the near future? And it’s very important to know for us, for students and for all Ukrainians, about practicality of entrance Ukraine in NATO. Thank you in advance.

A/S Nuland: Well, that’s interesting. So by my count it took me about 25 years to get from Molodaya Gvardiya to be Ambassador to NATO. Ukraine obviously has an Ambassador to NATO now. I assume you’re talking about NATO membership for Ukraine.

As you know, the doors to NATO are open to any European country that can meet the criteria and meet the responsibilities of NATO membership. Currently Ukraine has legislation that makes it a non-aligned country. It is obviously in your hands, the next generation of Ukrainians, to decide what kind of security future you want, what kind of relationship you want with NATO. But I will tell you that if you choose a NATO path, it’s very hard work. You can ask your friends in Eastern and Central Europe. And there is a lot to do to convince the NATO allies that you can meet the criterion and fulfill the responsibilities. But obviously that path will be for future Ukrainians to decide.

Audience: Hi, Ms. Nuland. My name is Polov Fedakovich. I’m a second year master student of law faculty here at Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv and I have the following question to you.

In geopolitics there is this term called Finlandization —

A/S Nuland: Called what?

Audience: Finlandization.

A/S Nuland: Finlandization.

Audience: Yes, it was a term used for Finland during the Cold War and that basically means the country that is influenced by the bigger neighbor without losing is sovereignty. So why am I asking that? Because Ukraine is in the middle between Europe and Russia. With this politics of balance, being a balance, between this Eastern world and the Western world be good for Ukraine in your opinion? Thank you.

A/S Nuland: First of all, I’m delighted to see so many future lawyers here in the audience. Ukraine is going to need good, clean lawyers, good, clean jurists. It’s a lot of work to do. Maybe instead of NATO you should be Chief Justices of Ukraine or of parts of Ukraine.

Finlandization. As my President said in New York a couple of weeks ago, the days are over in history when we can allow big countries to bully small ones, or when we can decide that might makes right. Instead, today, right must make might. And you here in Ukraine are fighting to choose your own future, to choose your relationship with your neighbors, your relationship with Europe, your relationship with us.

Obviously it’s in your interest and in our interest if a democratic Ukraine can have a peaceful mutually beneficial relationship with an increasingly democratic Russia. The future we want for you is also the future we want for Russia. But it is your choice to make and you are on the path to a more European unified democratic country and we strongly support that.

Let’s take two more. Then I’ve got to go see some more old men.

Audience: My name is Inna, and I am a student at the department of translation from English at this university, however the question will be of political character.

So as you have mentioned, the Article 4 of Minsk Agreement says that, it highlights inviolability of Ukraine borders. However, today the Ukrainian Supreme Council has voted for the change of borders of some districts within the Lugansk region, pulling apart rebel-held territory out of the government’s control. And there is an apparent inconsistency calling for the Ukrainian integrity and the vote for the limitation.

What sort of policy that doing one thing but promising another one? Doesn’t this promise resemble Putin’s policy?

A/S Nuland: You’re talking about the Special Status Law, is that what you’re talking about?

Audience: Yes. Not Special Status, no, no, no. I’m sorry. So I will repeat my question.

Everybody throughout the world calls for peace in Ukraine and for integrity of Ukrainian territory. However, today if I’m not mistaken at 1:00 p.m. the Ukrainian Supreme Council has adopted the law about changing some borders of Ukraine within the Luhansk region.

A/S Nuland: I’m not familiar with what happened three hours ago. I’m probably behind. I’m going to blame my ambassador, Geoff Pyatt, for my lack of information here.

Let me first of all say something that I think I neglected to say when I was standing at the podium. I want to commend the Rada today for its courageous decision to pass a very strong package of anti-corruption laws. This is just the beginning. This is a first reading. There will have to be a second reading and then the hard work of implementation starts. But this is absolutely essential for your future, for what you fought for on the Maidan, for ensuring that corruption can no longer be a cancer in this country, or a wormhole of foreign influence in this country. So we strongly, strongly support it and encourage the Rada to take the next step and we’ll look forward to watching all of you ensure full implementation.

I can only assume that there were some territorial changes within the Special Status Zone. Is that what we think happened today? This may well, we talked to the government yesterday about this, there may have been some territorial swaps within the zone inside Special Status and those parts that are outside Special Status in order to implement the ceasefire. I assume that that was what happened.

Again, we all have an interest in seeing this ceasefire be a true ceasefire, and seeing the fighting end. So if some territorial swaps made that possible, then we would support that if it’s supported by the Ukrainian people.

Audience: Hello, my name is Aria Spig, and I’m a third year philology student. My question is, you mentioned the ceasefire on the 5th of September, and I’ve just returned from the ATO zone and I know that the very day this agreement was implemented we were shot at and people were attacked in Mariupol by rebels.

My question is, do you think — I think a very popular question to you, but still, do you think further sanctions for Russia will help in any way?

And my second question is, quite the same, you said Poroshenko has adopted many unpopular but right decisions. Which ones you think he should adopt more to somehow solve the situation in the east?

A/S Nuland: I think we’ve talked a bit about our hope that the Ukrainian government will put forward a border monitoring plan that we can all rally behind and support. As I said, we were very eager to see the anti-corruption package pass and we encourage the government to continue on that trajectory. We’re also working with the EU and promoting a solution to the gas crisis before the winter. So these are obviously key things that have to be worked on now, including ensuring free and fair elections across Ukraine.

With regard to sanctions, sanctions are a regrettable but sometimes necessary tool of foreign policy. As I said, the most recent round of sanctions when we applied them in September together with Europe, we made clear that if the Minsk 12, all 12 are implemented, then we can begin to roll back sanctions. This is an incentive for Russia to fulfill its commitments under the Minsk 12. But if there is further aggression or continuing aggression against Ukraine there will be more costs.

One more and then I’ve got to go.

Audience: Alexandra Gorkova, Institute of International Relations. Thank you for coming. It’s a big honor to see you in our university.

It is well known that in your career was long term period of working in Russian Federation, so you’re about particularity of the political system and political problems of this country.

It is not a big secret that the political crisis in Ukraine became a reason of back set to U.S.-Russian cooperation and relationships, so nowadays in Russia grows up anti-American mood and they try to blame America in all our problems in Ukraine. And there is my question. What are the U.S. government steps on the way to the solutions of U.S.-Russian crisis in partnerships as now it is like Cold War continues. Thank you.

A/S Nuland: Well as President Obama has said, it doesn’t have to be this way. A Russia that comes back into compliance with its international obligations is a Russia that will be welcomed by the U.S., by Europe. As you know and as you’ve said, I have spent more than 20, 25 years of my life working in Russia with Russians in an effort to integrate Russia more closely into the Euro-Atlantic community, to open economic trade between us, to decrease security pressure. But when a country flagrantly violates international law, there have to be costs.

That said, we continue to try to reach out to Russia. We continue to try to talk, including on the subject of Ukraine. My President is regularly on the phone with President Putin, as yours is. My direct boss, Secretary Kerry, met with Foreign Minister Lavrov in New York. We will see him again, we expect, in the very near future to talk not just about peace and stability and restoring good relations here in Ukraine, but also about all the other things that we do together, working against nuclear weapons in Iran, trying to work together on Middle East peace, on Syria and Iraq and Libya and Yemen and arms control and all of those things that, when the U.S. and Russia can work together, make the planet safer, make your life easier.

So we will not stop trying, but many of the choices are in Russia’s hands.

Thank you all. Good luck with everything you do.

[featured image is file photo]